Tuesday, September 25, 2007

Beowulf

Here is the new post for Beowulf. Anything Beowulf related goes here! -Heather C

17 comments:

L Lazarow said...

I don't know whose comment this is but I moved it to the new Post.

LAZ said...
Ryan, you're awesome for making summaries for all of the readings. They are really helpfull. So, thanks! In the part that we're supposed to read, Heorot is attacked, what is Cain's relationship to Grendel? Did he kinda create him?

September 25, 2007 2:48 PM

L Lazarow said...

To answer the unknown comment, it is my understanding that Cain did not create Grendel. Grendal is a creature that is jealous and full of vengence. I am not sure that he is a direct descendant from Cain but he is a monster and he may have descended from someone like Cain. He longs to not be an outcast from God anymore. That is he gets angry when he hears the warriors telling the story of God's Creation and attacks the thiry men. I hope that helps you. -Heather C

L Lazarow said...

in lines 102-105 it said that Grendel had lived with Cain's clan so could Grendel be a demon that descended from Cain? lu l.

Ryan said...

When the author talks about Grendel being in Cain's clan, he means that Grendel is monster who is banished from heaven forever and is forced to wander the world forever. The author links Grendel with Cain's banishment in Genesis 4.12: "When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength; you shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth."

Also the story says that Grendel "grabbed thirty men from their resting places and rushed to his lair". How big is Grendel actually? Is he a normal sized demon or something similar to a dragons size?

Finally, on line 166-169 Grendel is mentioned taking over Heorot, but could not approach the throne, he is the Lord's outcast. Why can he not approach the throne? Is it because it is a symbol of power or is it blessed?

L Lazarow said...

I think it is becasue it is blessed and he cannot enter the building becasue he is a demon or some kind of evil that is forbidden from entering it.

L Lazarow said...

After i read it, it seemed that Grendel was sort of like the devil or could even be the devil. I dont really understand much of what was said in lines 115-130. What was going on there it mentioned Grendel went to see the ring danes but i dont really understand what he did? Dylan K (the previous post was by me too)

Ryan said...

On lines 431-440, Beowulf announces to Hrothgar that he will fight Grendel with without a sword or shield. Anyone have any ideas how he is to defeat a moster that could destroy armies without any weapons?
Also isn't this a foreshadowing of his death because of all his pride?

L Lazarow said...

Maybe Beowulf could trick Grendel like Odysseus did with the cyclops and then defeat him. He also might be able to surprise Grendel and make Grendel think that Grendel has a big advantage and then Beowulf goes in for the attack.

It might be a foreshadow of his death in a later battle. It might also be a custom that with feuds or a battle like this that it is only proper for the two men/monsters fight in hand to hand combat. Hrothgar says in lines 459-461
"There was a feud one time, begun by your father.
With his own hands he had killed Heatholaf
who was a Wulfing;"
So Beowulf's father also fought hand to hand combat in a feud.

I also think that in Beowulf's speech, when he lists the accomplishments and battles that he has fought, it is only a way for him to give Hrothgar his "credentials" and background. This helps Hrothgar make his decision on whether or not to allow Beowulf to come in and fight. ~Heather C

Ryan said...

Even if Beowulf didn't give Hrothgar his credentials, what king would turn away a band of soldiers that are pledging their life to protect his kingdom? The only thing that presenting his credentials would do would be to make the king feel more confident that the warriors might actually complete this task. If a monster was ravaging you kingdom every night I think you would want all the help that you could get, no matter how skilled or unskilled.

Ryan said...

Also I agree on the fact that the monster has to be tricked like Odysseus did to the cyclops. Like Laz said "Evil must defeat itself", so somehow Beowulf must trick Grendel to make him falter in an attack or somehow play on the aspect that he is still part human, so maybe by drawing out emotions, he could defeat the demon.

L Lazarow said...

I also agree with the trickery of Grendel. But an alternative would be using his banashment from society. Since that is his weakness, and it's been established already, it's almost foreshadowing of what is to come. If he is of nobility then theres a strong possibility that Grendel could fear it. also fear itself. Grendel is feeding on the fear of the people, and their weakness. If there is no fear and emense strength, theres more of a balance bettween the two. - k fahey

L Lazarow said...

It seems as if King Hrothgar was at his wit's end and totally flustered by the whole situation with Grendel because he left Heorot under Beowulf's protection. I understand the fact that Hrothgar was quite a respected king and a good man, but he didn't seem to have much strength in the situation. Though, I must take the fact that this is an oral epic into consideration. But I have never read, in all the literature I've seen, a king let a stranger take over his kingdom so easily. It is clearly shown in lines 653-661. The story must have been changed by the scop. Brittany M.

Chris C. said...

I was just thinking about this in class today, but if the Danes were so great at conquering people and they had this great hall built for them becaue their army was so strong than why didn't Hrothgar just order the whole danish army to fight him? Just a thought.

Ryan said...

Chris, would you want to fight a monster that is able to grab thirty men at once? So why would the Danes want to besides the fact that they were defending their lord?

If the whole Danish army did fight then they would most likely be too scared to be effective. Therefore sending the whole army to defend would just be a waste of the life. Hrothgar knows this and allows Beowulf to attempt this task because he believes that Beowulf is very skilled as the tales about him suggest and it is not Hrothgar's men that would be dying from this decision.

Greg D. said...

also to add to this grendel is charmed so that he is impervious to metal like swords slashing him and what not, so basically they would have ahd to think of soemthing along th elines of what beowulf did

L Lazarow said...

It should also be noted that the rules of combat for that time ment that the entire army would not fight Gredel at once, they would according to traddition each challenge him individually until he fell or until there were no more left. However since Grendel does not follow the rules of combat the Danes would just be going to the slaughter.Lisa S

L Lazarow said...

The whole Danish army could not be able to fight Grendel because they do not have the strength or weapons to hurt him, so basically if Hrothgar ordered all the Danes to attack him, Grendel basically gets an all you can grab buffet of soldiers.

-Doug Z